Taylor: 0:10

What's up wizards. It's time for rule zero, the show that helps you prepare for the best game of magic. I'm

Shawn: 0:15

And I'm Sean. It is our hope that through our combined 20 plus years experience playing every form of magic under the sun and cultivating a great play group, tons of great decks, and also trying a lot of outside the box variants and homebrew rules that we can pass that golden knowledge onto you. This week, we have a special guest on the podcast. The first, none other than our very own local game store owner and friend, Charlotte. Hi,

Taylor: 0:38

Hi, Charlotte.

Charla: 0:39

up? Hi! So now do we get to be like 30 plus years of

Shawn: 0:44

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, this is gonna be the most knowledge of any podcast.

Charla: 0:49

right.

Shawn: 0:50

That's ever

Charla: 0:51

Like, whoa, whoa, these big brains.

Taylor: 0:54

All this knowledge in one video podcast, whatever. I don't know if it can contain us. Charlotte, could you introduce us to yourself, your game store? Just kind of like in a general, who are you? What are you? What's, what's going on there?

Charla: 1:09

What's happening? That's a great question. I am a wizard. Let's see. So, I own Gamers Haunt in Asheville, North Carolina. And I've been playing Magic for 10 12 years, somewhere around there. It started right around the time of Avacyn Restored. Where you'd go into Barnes Noble and you'd get those fat packs. Um, and we're like, oh, this is the best thing in the world. And then I discovered that there were LGSs out there. And I was like, this is even better. This is so exciting.

Shawn: 1:39

I could see you starting at Barnes Noble. I'm sorry to, but just, there is a mountain of books behind you of

Charla: 1:46

that's true.

Shawn: 1:47

of authors hanging on the, you are very well read. So you're dropping at least twice as much knowledge as I am in this show.

Charla: 1:53

Yeah. I'm sad because I wanted to do this in my, uh, game room, but my husband is setting up for D& D in there, so I got kicked to the study for the podcast. But it makes me look a lot more nerdy, so,

Shawn: 2:06

Working. it's, it's

Charla: 2:07

I guess. Yeah, so I always joke to customers when they're like, Oh, I love magic. I'm like, careful. I started to play and then I bought a shop.

Shawn: 2:13

And so that evolution I think is kind of like what we wanted to bring you in for not just to have a great conversation but also I was thinking three or four weeks ago I think when we first came up with this idea of like there are not many shows out there that have talked to an LGS owner about specifically what commander has done to the landscape of maybe owning a shop or

Charla: 2:35

Oh, yeah.

Shawn: 2:37

like how are

Charla: 2:38

it's warped it. Deformed

Shawn: 2:40

Yeah, the attempted resurgence of standard and such that I know wizards is kind of pushing, but not like to a most successful degree, maybe. So a lot of little ins and outs. But before we get to we always start with what is one thing you've been excited about in the world of magic. Usually it's me and Taylor prattling on about Dungeons or something. What is something that has you excited for the world of magic this week?

Charla: 3:07

So Taylor warned me about this question and he was like, and you have to tell me why it's Bloomboro. I was like, I was like, well, listen, I would die for Mabel. So he's not wrong. I don't know. Obviously you've seen this mouse now. Yes.

Taylor: 3:19

It just takes me back to, Redwall

Charla: 3:21

Yeah.

Taylor: 3:22

Brian Jacks and, oh, I love it.

Charla: 3:25

No, I'm actually legitimately incredibly excited about it. My sister and I read Redwall when we were little. And we were the kind of kids who'd always like try to make the food that matched the scene, which actually is probably why I do that for pre releases, to be honest. Like, we always serve food that's theme y with it, so I'm very excited to break out Redwall recipes.

Taylor: 3:44

Oh, I'm thrilled too. That's one of my favorite parts is just to grab some of the snacks ah, it's so great. You always do such a good job with the pre releases you and your staff. It's always such a special time. So thanks for doing that and making pre release, which is this like special thing for a lot of people, even more exciting. It's just always a thrill to get to do it at the shop.

Charla: 4:01

I secretly want to be a carny, so I bring in, you know, Carnival Games and all that stuff.

Shawn: 4:07

I was like, it does feel like a circus in the last outlaws of Thunder Junction. I didn't get to go to it, but there's like wheels spinning and like darts flying around. I mean, maybe not darts, but like, it feels like you're

Charla: 4:18

were. There was Nerf. There were Nerf Gun. There were Nerf Gun duels. Yeah.

Taylor: 4:27

for this.

Shawn: 4:27

getting hit with pellets.

Taylor: 4:29

heh heh

Shawn: 4:30

a swinging door at the front.

Taylor: 4:32

Heh.

Charla: 4:33

Yeah, I actually partnered, with Dale with Gamers Haunt, six years ago, and he really likes, set up having those games and stuff like that. Like the first Ixalan, he had the Nerf gun fights and stuff like that, and it's just a lot of fun to, you know, add just a little bit of chaos. You know, why shop for a deck box when you can, uh, run for your life to get one?

Taylor: 4:57

Heh heh. Right. Yeah

Shawn: 4:58

deck boxes as you fire for your life to

Taylor: 5:02

Heh heh heh.

Shawn: 5:03

try and get to the checkout.

Charla: 5:05

you gotta shoot one off the shelf to get one.

Taylor: 5:09

To kind of kick us off after, you know, you're excited about Bloomboro. I am too. I'm excited to see what the shop's going to do, but you mentioned that you got your start at going to Barnes and Noble and everything. What led you to be interested in magic in the first place? I mean, were you just, did you just see it on the shelf and you wanted to do it? Or how did you get introduced to the game?

Charla: 5:29

No, um, I got introduced to it in the cliché way of my boyfriend at the time. Used to play as a child, and you know, very intelligently traded a dual land for a Shivan dragon. Cause he's like, this dragon will kill you, this land is stupid. So he hadn't played since he was a kid and saw it at Barnes Noble and was like, Hey, I think you might like this. But we hadn't played in forever. And it's really funny, we had a roommate who like heard that crinkle of the pack, you know, in the other room. And came running in, it's like, Are you all opening Magic? Yeah. So there was this beautiful golden era where all of us just sat at home playing Magic. And as soon as someone got off work, they were like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're ready, we're ready.

Shawn: 6:12

I think that we're trying to chase that a lot as players in the game that initial feeling of sitting around kitchen tables And commander gets closest to it I

Charla: 6:22

yeah.

Shawn: 6:22

But in order to play commander you have to have a shop. Which is another great thing that you've done for us. In providing us a place that's not like a bus station underneath a bench somewhere. In a urine soaked puddle. I mean that,

Charla: 6:35

do, we

Shawn: 6:36

was my second choice of usually where I would play. But.

Taylor: 6:40

That's why I double sleeve my cards now. Too many incidents under the bridge.

Shawn: 6:43

I mean they don't get they don't get soaked with urine whenever you double sleeve properly if you do the side loading double sleeve

Charla: 6:51

Yeah, which I will say, I'm going to call out all my customers right now, 80 to 90 percent of them double sleeve that way, and I'm like, why did you just waste your time? The water has to go down like a millimeter and done.

Shawn: 7:04

you so much. Our friend Carl does this it drives

Charla: 7:07

I know, I know, I have had this conversation with him.

Shawn: 7:11

Like what is the point of this? What are we doing?

Charla: 7:15

He's like, it's easier. And I was like, not that much easier.

Taylor: 7:17

I know Astrid has the split cube and so it makes sense because you're trying to combine cards and so that's a little bit easier and it has like a practical purpose behind it. But no, I, oh my gosh, that like makes me cringe. I've never been so, uh, seen and heard by complaining about sideloading in their sleeves. So

Charla: 7:36

We want to create a safe space. Unless you're a side loader. No, I'm kidding. Yeah.

Shawn: 7:43

I'm curious. What was your first commander?

Charla: 7:45

my first commander, I feel like everyone should know that off the top of their back, you know, like what's your first kiss? Who's your first commander? Sometimes, sometimes your first kiss just isn't that memorable.

Shawn: 7:56

I've tried to forget it.

Charla: 7:58

yeah, yep, yep, yep. Um, I actually. And I was like, well, that's it. Uh, so I first started playing commander when it was really, you know, like what you did in the back of the shop, where you kind of were a little bit embarrassed cause you didn't have the money to play real magic. Right. And there was not commander product. And I think my first commander, I can't remember his name, it's called like uncle. Nope.

Shawn: 8:22

Okay, he was called uncle he was

Charla: 8:25

He was called Uncle. Someone Google. Someone save me.

Shawn: 8:28

Istvan,

Charla: 8:31

yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Shawn: 8:33

That was real, that was really it? Uncle Istvan?

Charla: 8:36

I think it was. I think it was.

Shawn: 8:38

Istvan. I made a deck with him once. It was a problematic deck at best. Story about him being insane, so.

Charla: 8:47

that's right.

Taylor: 8:50

I mean, the art has some with the skull tied to his, uh, hatchet, and the hatchet's covered in blood? I've, I don't think I've ever seen this card.

Charla: 8:59

My first commander that, like, stuck was when they came out with commander decks. And I bought Kali of the Bast. And that is my deck that I always go back to. I take it apart and then I'm like, what have I done? I've done. I'm so sorry. I love you. Come back to me. So now I've just, I've just resigned myself that she will never go away. And I put like, quote unquote, the show off deck or all of the things that I think are super cool. I played pet cards in there that are not as good as other cards, just cause I'm like, but this art, have you seen this art?

Taylor: 9:30

I'm trying to find a deck to put Limdool's Paladin in, and I'm thinking about trying to find a slot for it in my cube, and that, that's like, I don't know, it's red and black and so it could go into Kalia the vast. And so, just saying you could have this weird, uh, zero three with trample, uh, creature that goes in there and you can do some cool things. I don't think it actually matches any of the types that Kalia cares about, but I hear you. It's nice to have a

Shawn: 9:52

pick that's the stuff that you come to rule zero podcast for How to add whatever that Sun? Card was that made me say curse words and one of like three episodes ago

Charla: 10:05

I looked that card up and I was like, cause I had never heard of this card. And I was like, what is this card? And now, now I have questions for you, Taylor. I have so many questions.

Taylor: 10:15

Sunfire Balm is a great magic card. It's right here. Hang on. I keep it at the front now because

Shawn: 10:21

I Feel like you

Charla: 10:22

listeners at home, he just died. He just dove underneath his desk being like, I've got it right here somewhere. Oh my gosh. Really? Yeah. Ready to go.

Shawn: 10:32

Oh

Taylor: 10:32

always at the ready. No, it's actually at the front. So I can take it out easily. Uh, I still need to get a windshaper planetar. I have been fully convinced of that. So that's the

Shawn: 10:41

pushing it and I'll put I'll bring everybody on board with this train this trains never stopping going right to crazy town.

Charla: 10:50

I hear there's a great shop you can get singles from locally.

Shawn: 10:53

Oh

Taylor: 10:53

Yeah, it it's Taylor's apartment. heh

Shawn: 10:58

So, so Kali of the vast comes out. Does that define you as a player? Sort of like, do you find that that pattern of punching in and like surprising, like sneak attack, dragons in is kind of your bag or, or not.

Charla: 11:14

No, so if I am left to my own devices, right, you know, like, everybody ebbs towards something, towards decay, mine is always aristocrats, like, I stub my toe and suddenly I'm playing aristocrats again, and I don't mean to be, but it just happens, I'm like, what if I killed my own creatures? I can do this before you hurt me. You know, I think, I think it goes back to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn: 11:38

It's a response to trauma. In other words,

Charla: 11:40

hmm. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm like, you don't kill my creatures. I kill my creatures.

Shawn: 11:45

this is why I play taser so, you know, I guess we're all just working through stuff together

Taylor: 11:52

My Jadar deck is definitely just let me sacrifice everything and try and get some value. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it's fun because like you said, I hurt myself. You can't hurt me. If I hurt myself

Shawn: 12:02

Well, what's funny is jadar is trying to hurt them before you hurt them too Which his tokens automatically hurt themselves? So it's it's even more strange of a relationship like my own commander is at odds in a way with what I want to do But that kind of makes it fun It's like I can

Charla: 12:19

true. Your deck is almost inner fighting. Yeah.

Shawn: 12:22

I'm playing

Taylor: 12:23

Yeah. It's like a race against myself.

Charla: 12:25

Mm hmm. One of my favorite, standard decks that I played was, was what that trope comes from. It's the aristocrat deck that played like cartel aristocrat, falconwrath aristocrat, blood artist. I really liked that deck.

Taylor: 12:38

All of those together are so fun. I love to like stacking all those things together because that blood artist effect turns into, you know, three or four or five damage when you have the falcon wrath noble, and then you add in a Zulaport cutthroat now, and there are all these new ones that keep coming out the wisp drinker vampire, I think, is that what it is out of OTJ that does it too. I mean, just all these fun things. New Kemball cares about making tokens and it creates. The aristocrats on the front end. So whenever you make your tokens, it deals damage. And so a lot of cool synergies there on the, on the flip side, what, what are some commanders you don't like, or maybe you've tried and you just say, Ooh, this is not for me.

Charla: 13:16

Alright, so I've made two decks that I immediately tore apart this year. One was, oh, I'm gonna mispronounce all these names, it's terrible, but Iriet, the Charmed, so she looks really cool, she's very popular, I think I built her really poorly, I'm gonna be honest, I think this was architecturally unsound the way I designed her. And then the other one I did was the, she's the Grixis curse deck, the pain. I don't remember her name. Do you have that deck?

Taylor: 13:48

Yeah. And it, it's like when it works, it works. And when it doesn't, it doesn't.

Charla: 13:52

Yeah.

Taylor: 13:53

there's no in between. And we were just talking about that and recording another episode. That's one of my least favorite things that happens is you build this deck and you're like, Oh, It should do this really cool thing where I get to curse you and then sacrifice that curse and get more back. It takes a lot of setup and that doesn't always work out. Was that your experience with it? Or

Charla: 14:10

absolutely. And the other thing that I realized I don't love about, honestly, both of those decks, I think you're casting like a curse or an enchantment, but as soon as you cast it, your interaction is done. So you're not doing anything else with that. You're just casting that and sitting back and hoping nobody kills you. You're like, alright, I put these things on the table, and now they're doing their thing, and I'm done with

Shawn: 14:36

it is a helpless kind of place, right? It's like nobody says they want to build their deck at enchantment speed.

Charla: 14:41

You're just not doing anything else. You're just done. You're like,

Shawn: 14:44

of like Jude's mono green, you know, dude's deck It's just I'm gonna put a force of nature on the table and now I'll pass the turn and I'll have five minutes off From the game in which I hope I come back to a table that is remotely like good for me

Charla: 14:59

Yeah, that's how I feel. I'm like, when it comes back to my turn, will I get to cast another curse? I don't know. Maybe.

Taylor: 15:06

I think that everyone should have a deck in their rotation. That is kind of like, I don't know, not mind completely off, but. You know, you just kind of get to go on autopilot because there's that last game at the end of the night where you're like, I want to get in one more. And for me, that's my big Galta deck. Cause I'm just like smashing big creatures. And so I kind of see where Ariette could be like that, where it's like, Oh yeah, I'll just sit back and I don't have to think about it. I'll just look at the board state every time the turn comes back to me so maybe there's something there. I don't know, but I get that. It's not fun to just have to, you know, Wait, like you said, five, 10 minutes, however long it takes to get back to your turn.

Shawn: 15:41

So there's a couple questions want to LGS if you're okay with jumping in there now

Charla: 15:48

Okay, let's do

Shawn: 15:49

so you hinted earlier that you partnered with another person to Take over the shop and basically you've been the face of gamers haunt for how many years now, would you say?

Charla: 15:59

Uh, six years now.

Shawn: 16:00

Okay, so a lot of lessons learned I imagine a lot of

Charla: 16:05

Hmm. I made it through COVID. I have seen some things.

Shawn: 16:08

And that was actually on our list of questions of

Charla: 16:11

Oh, is it? Yeah.

Shawn: 16:12

wouldn't bring back

Charla: 16:13

How scary it is.

Shawn: 16:14

of like, yeah, it sounds like, that's a hard time. I imagine a lot of game shops closed down at that point. But we'll start with easier questions, shallow and questions.

Charla: 16:24

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn: 16:26

so let's say bright eyed Sharla comes into the room from, Barnes and noble with avison restored, box in hand. And it's like, I want to buy this game shop. Is there any kind of like thing you might tell that Charlotte of that time from modern day you, or just a word of advice, warning care?

Charla: 16:50

Honestly, I think the looking back, I would say take bigger risks. I mean, that's easy to say now, of course. Right. Hindsight 2020. But I, I don't know if he's ever been to my shop at a pre release or a Friday night night, it's cozy. It's real cozy and it's just getting cozier. So the week before COVID, I had signed a new lease for a larger location. And then three days after I signed that lease, I got noticed that I was going to have to close down entirely. And I don't sell online at all. So I was like, I, I can't, I can't do that. That's super terrifying. That's double, double my rent. I don't know if I'm going to make it. But looking back, that would have been a great idea. Partly because Asheville, North Carolina, it is so expensive! Oh my gosh, it is so expensive! To move locations, like, if I wanted to get a location the size of mine now, I'd be paying about 7, 000 more dollars a month

Taylor: 17:48

Oh my

Charla: 17:49

for the same size of location. So I was like, I'm gonna die here.

Shawn: 17:52

Particularly in the last year or two, I feel like it's really just exploded as far as like, if you didn't get in before now, good luck to you. All the best. But, um, yeah. Have you ever thought about other smaller little weird communities that exist out in the woods?

Taylor: 18:11

Taking Asheville back to its roots where, we met in the woods and now we're all friends together. Yeah.

Charla: 18:16

I'm going to start doing male, magic, you know, where you male each other your moves. So my location won't matter?

Taylor: 18:23

Perfect. You want to take bigger risks or that'd be your advice to take bigger risks. I

Charla: 18:28

Yeah.

Taylor: 18:29

you know, If you had like the power to do so, like money's no object to you, you could do whatever you wanted to right now, what's a big risk that you would maybe like to take for the shop or what's something you'd like to do with the shop that I don't know, maybe it's been in the back of your head or you've been thinking, Oh, wouldn't it be cool if you have anything like that, that comes to mind.

Charla: 18:47

All right. Yes. We're going to try to keep this as little small as possible because I think about this stuff all the time. Right? You're in the shower and you're like, what if, so I would love to build my own building. I want it to be two stories. I want the top floor to be offices and then I want to have rooms upstairs that you can rent. And I would like it if there's like large room and small rooms, right? Cause I've discovered, I converted my front area. It used to be the back room into play area. And it's actually where all of my players gravitate to. Cause it's like cozy. It feels nice. You feel like you're playing a game at your kitchen table more so, I think. So even when there is space available in the back, I have players come there, not just you all.

Taylor: 19:32

That is the spot where we try to grab on Sunday afternoons for sure.

Shawn: 19:35

Absolutely.

Charla: 19:36

but not just you, like, you know, you're like, what, what's, what's that, uh, what's that room doing over there? Um, so I want to

Shawn: 19:45

I'm sending messages like a military person. We've got the room. Everybody come in.

Charla: 19:53

There was a Sunday I was off and I had left all of my sorting stuff, I remember, on this table. And Sean's like, we're, we have to be out on the porch, the room is, the room's unavailable!

Shawn: 20:04

We're exposed to the elements and noise and

Charla: 20:07

this is terrible!

Shawn: 20:08

What is this?

Charla: 20:11

What's happening? Yeah, so I would love to have a large space that creates small nooks that still make you feel like you have your playgroup. And I think that gives it that nice element of both. I would love to have a little café, and when I say café, I mean serves three types of sandwiches and three types of drinks, and that's it. Um, cause I think if you do it small and right, that's what you want to do. Like I don't want to run a restaurant. I have no interest in that. And then I would also like to rotate, because Asheville is also really known for its breweries, so I'd love to have like, three things on tap and rotating from the breweries of what it was. I probably wouldn't serve every night, but I'd have certain nights that were like draft, draft night.

Taylor: 20:56

That sounds great.

Charla: 20:57

I like a good pun. Um,

Shawn: 20:59

It's the only way

Charla: 20:59

but I would like to

Shawn: 21:00

in this environment of game

Charla: 21:02

exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like, I want to keep it a good, like, family kid place, but I want to have, like, maybe after nine o'clock or, you know, some time where you, you were able to have just, just a beer and sit and play. So that's, that's my dream.

Shawn: 21:17

I remember doing a midnight pre release with Amonkhet, I believe. And I brought a friend who had never played Magic before. At a pre release or anything before. And it, I don't remember when it started, maybe 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. And I remember getting out of there at a, an hour where no one else was awake. And it did feel like I was kind of leaving a bar at that point. I was emotionally drained. Mentally drained we had some spoils and packs and we're just too tired to even open them We're just kind of just zombieing out into the street. It was actually a

Charla: 21:50

I do sometimes.

Shawn: 21:51

description

Taylor: 21:52

that sounds awesome. I think that some of those events and some of these ideas are possible. I mean, it's so cool to have seen the shop grow because that's how Sean and I met. We met, I guess. Yeah. Geez, 10 plus years ago at gamers hunt. And so cool to see how the shop evolved. I remember when you expanded and you, added in that extra side there. And that was amazing. I remember the first time walking in and I was like, this is a beautiful space. And so I can only imagine what you would do if you had this two story building with all of these awesome nooks and crannies and a cafe and everything else. So, um, I'm here for it. I would love to support that. And however I could, you know, I'll still find a way to get there.

Charla: 22:31

I'm just gonna throw this out there to people. There's this, customer, Jeff, who plays Modern there. And we buy the lottery ticket, and we've agreed, If one of us wins, we're going in together. We're gonna make this happen.

Taylor: 22:43

Sign me up. I'll that's probably better than the number of packs I buy. Anyways,

Charla: 22:47

Oh wait, hold on now. Let's not get carried away.

Shawn: 22:51

I am down I'm sure there's a limit out there but I often think to myself if you win the lottery Really? You don't need that much money to have a good time and enjoy yourself So just literally divvy it out amongst all your friends, pay off all debts, et cetera. Make everyone's life better. Cause like what are you gonna do? Get buried with it? Be a Jeff Bezos and a yacht that can't even fit through a canal. Like what are you gonna do? Come on.

Charla: 23:14

I love the people that are like, Lottery winners actually aren't that happy. And it's like, give me a chance. Let me see. Let me find out. I'm just saying.

Taylor: 23:23

I would gladly walk a mile in those shoes.

Shawn: 23:24

So curious. You could say wave your hand and let players at Gamers Haunt know a thing Like this thing would be make your life easier make things better for your employees who knows what Feel safe saying this and unless you don't and then I can't you know, help you there, but

Charla: 23:45

Say it anyway. No, I'm kidding.

Shawn: 23:47

good television. Um What would you let folks know like what would be a healthy thing for New people to the shop or even old veterans to the shop to kind of recognize

Charla: 23:57

We'll do the boring part. If you're running a business, usually they say you want your like profit margin to be 50 percent more than what you pay for the product. It's usually closer to 40%. Magic product is about 10%. So when I'm selling you a box that you're like, why is this so expensive? I hate you. I'm making about five to 10 on that box. And that is before I've paid my employees. That's before I've paid my light bill or my rent or anything else. So there's just no profit in sealed product. So a lot of times, yes, you can buy it cheaper off of TCG. Because that is a dude in his underwear, in his grandmother's basement, love you TCG player. Sorry. Don't, don't not, uh, sponsor this podcast. um, no, um, I mean, like I legitimately think TCG player is a good tool for players. But a lot of times it's a race to the bottom where it's like people trying to offload products that they just literally don't need. So they're selling it cheaper than I can buy it from my distributor. And I legitimately think people do not know that, that there's just It's just expensive. There's no, MSRP, which is, I think a lot of people don't even know what that is, but it tells you what the retailer is like. This is what our product is worth. And Magic, this is my tin hat theory, but Magic, when they signed a contract to only sell exclusively through Amazon, And they stopped selling to local game shops, because they used to. We used to be able to buy directly through them. And they were like, the only person we're going to sell directly to is Amazon. com. They took away that MSRP price, and I think they did that because Amazon sells so far below that MSRP, that they didn't want to show that, right? They didn't want to reveal that.

Taylor: 25:41

Well, I think that's good to know. I mean, I know one of the things that really. Amped up. My love of magic was watching the professor on playing community college, and he talks a lot about buying singles. And so how does, how does that work for you? I mean, you can tell us as much or as little as you want to there, but does that, if I buy singles, does that help you more?

Charla: 25:58

I'll tell you anything. Well, it's awkward, right? Cause I say there's no profit in sealed product, but I want my customers to buy sealed product. I need them to, because that's how you get cards in the community. So I try not to make it crazy expensive. I try to be like, okay, this is just enough that at least I have it for people. They can open it, they can experience it. Cause yes, we all know it's stupid to buy that pack. Yes. We all buy that pack. Like, it's just so fun. Like, you know, Taylor, you've, you've sold me some of your beautiful goodies you've opened. You're a legend there. People are like, Oh, he's got to open all of our packs. so I don't remember what the question was. I've lost myself in this little circle.

Taylor: 26:40

Yeah. So. I guess, you know, we're kind of the advice that we've been given as players is to purchase singles. And so how does that work in the store for you? I mean, is that what I ought to be doing? I know I need to open packs to help fill in some of those slots so you can have those cards to sell, but is that a good piece of advice for you as a store owner to tell your customers as well, to buy those singles that help you out more?

Charla: 27:00

Absolutely, uh, buying singles is the bread and butter at Gamer's Haunt. Um, not all LGSs have that luxury. We happen to have an incredible inventory. If you've not left the safe bubble of Gamer's Haunt, we really legitimately, I will very proudly say, have one of the best inventories, maybe on the east coast, sands like Star City.

Taylor: 27:23

Oh wow.

Charla: 27:24

but we have an incredible inventory, so that's where we make our money. So, yes, absolutely. I think the other thing going touching a little bit back with signals and what Sean was asking about what I wish customers would know about is proxies are very awkward and comfortable conversation for LGS is, and it's something that I wish that the professor would look at with more nuance. It's frustrating to watch huge, big icons like himself be like, just go home and print that off. Like, I understand that I've been a player. I proxied cards and things like that, but Wizards of the Coast will not sell me product if I allow proxies to be used, in the shop for tournaments and for gameplay. We would lose that right to be a magic shop. We would lose that identity. Um, and I don't think they talk about that enough. So people are just like, yeah, whatever, who cares? And that's a feel bad as a shop.

Taylor: 28:19

Yeah.

Charla: 28:19

I, I can't, I can't do that. Wizards monitors what you get very closely. Like you have to have a certain number of players in your shop that are returning new players, um, all of that stuff. They keep track of it, determine whether or not they will give you cool promos to give out to your players, whether or not they will give you sell you product period, how much they will sell you, how many pre release kits you're allowed to even buy. You know, it's this weird game of like new product will be coming out and you'll call up your distributor and they'll be like, Hey, so good to hear from you. How many collector packs do you want? And you're like, I want 60. And they're like, how about 20? And you're like, okay, that sounds cool. So it's this, just a weird game of cat and mouse.

Taylor: 29:05

Yeah.

Charla: 29:06

and I think that I would really love it if people talked about that more of like, you know, that, that is a nuanced conversation. It's not just across the board of like, Screw it. Dang

Taylor: 29:19

a name they watch out for that, for like sanctioned events, like a standard, like an FNM, or is it just kind of like general, like if they're playing in your store, that's what they're watching for. Like, that's what you have to report. Or how does, like you just said, I know it's nuanced. You don't have to go in a crazy detail, but I mean, yeah. We've drafted my cube at your shop and I've got one, I have one proxy because I can't find a copy of it! Did I ruin everything?

Charla: 29:45

let everybody hear this! No, no. Um, all of my Qube ones are not sanctioned events. I don't use those, for reporting as events, largely because Qube, I think, is just a really fun, interesting way to, like, figure out how you Um, you were talking about how Astrid, um, has this, uh, double sided cube and stuff, so almost all of hers are printed out because it's not practical to have two of every single card in your cube. I also think proxying is really important to figure out whether you even want to buy a 50 card. Like, it's ridiculous to be like, well, buy it and then decide if you want it. I'm like Yeah, or pay for your rent. I don't know.

Taylor: 30:25

I live in Asheville. I can either buy one magic card or I can live.

Charla: 30:30

right, just saying. Yeah, so no, you just have to figure out like where's that balance at. So for instance, Friday Night Magic, for, for the event itself, I've got a big sign and stuff where it's like you have to have one deck that is like your registered deck that is unproxied. And that's going to be the deck for the official event.

Shawn: 30:51

That's great to hear about because I've been so far out of the competitive world for a while that I forget about, you know, deck registration and like making sure that your deck is fully, you know, real magic cards and stuff, but all that stuff gets checked and it's important to pay attention to. So I hope our listeners who go into the shop are very mindful of this.

Charla: 31:13

The one thing I can say, and I think that this is where largely the populace turned on wizards with proxies and where I turned on wizards with proxies. I think we all know where maybe this is going, are those beautiful 30th anniversary packs that they were selling for 250 a piece and then told you you legally couldn't play with them? So,

Shawn: 31:36

I grew up opening packs of revised. And, uh, it's, you know, Unlimited was occasionally a pack that I would see get opened. The amount of trash rares, horrible uncommons, packs that had three lands in them, like, stuff that you would get would be such a horrible experience. Everybody thinks about, I'm going to open the Black Lotus. No, you're going to open the web. That's what you're going to open. And that's a

Charla: 32:03

gonna open Urs's glasses. That's right. Do you know what that card is?

Taylor: 32:08

yeah, they commit crimes. It

Shawn: 32:10

Yeah, you can actually, it might actually see a place now

Charla: 32:12

Oh, wait a minute! This comment isn't gonna age well. People are gonna be like,

Shawn: 32:18

maybe

Charla: 32:19

chase card.

Shawn: 32:20

sunglasses of Urza instead changes your planes in the mountains sort of

Charla: 32:27

Dang it!

Shawn: 32:27

and very rosy colored. He had a lot of glasses. No, think about it.

Charla: 32:31

What's sad is it was such a cool idea. If they had made them 10 a pack even, I'd be like, for nostalgia, I will pay 10.

Shawn: 32:39

Absolutely, and what about so many? Like, the,

Charla: 32:41

yeah,

Shawn: 32:42

to open those cards. And just to see the old designs. I'm old enough to feel the nostalgia kick there of only opening a granite gargoyle or a royal assassin or whatever, but It was not a celebration of magic the way it was and I know it's kind of been I Think everyone

Charla: 32:58

been beaten to death, but I feel it. I mean, like, I don't

Shawn: 33:01

yeah, and I was actually gonna bring it up because I was like well wizards decided to start proxying their own cards And selling

Charla: 33:07

yes, absolutely. And I think I legitimately, yeah, I think that's where the community turned on them on it. And like when people bring that to me, I'm like, uh, technical difficulty. I don't know.

Shawn: 33:23

Heh. Loading screen. Nyeh. I'm

Charla: 33:26

Mm hmm.

Shawn: 33:26

heh. Heh Heh

Charla: 33:28

comment. No comment.

Shawn: 33:29

heh heh. Yeah.

Taylor: 33:30

that's something that wizards has done recently. That's been like, maybe not the best thing. What's something recently that wizards has done where you're like, yes, this has helped magic grow. In the community to help support the shop, what have been some of their successes, or at least what have you seen as the success to help the local community?

Charla: 33:48

Yeah. Interestingly enough, my personal opinion on this is very different than my experience as a shop owner and that's Universe Beyond. Um, that has brought a lot of new customers to my shop and like people I really like and genuinely and like, I am so glad you found magic and you never would have, if it hadn't been for this, especially, customers, you know, that didn't play it as a kid. Right. And they missed that boat. They're not old enough to remember it, but they're not young enough to be like, I'm gonna get into magic. So it's brought in a really neat group of people that are like, I loved Doctor Who, or I loved Fallout. Charlotte doesn't love Universe Beyond, but I do legitimately think it's been good for the game.

Taylor: 34:29

Very cool. No, I, I

Charla: 34:30

some opinions on

Taylor: 34:33

think we both

Shawn: 34:34

as well because if I get to run my Aragorn king of the transformers deck Against players who really don't like universes beyond the secret troll inside of me or not. So secret troll is just like Eat this bumblebees riding with Aragorn and like a fallout laser cannon They're coming up to crush down your elves.

Charla: 34:54

magic is wild. I'll be like, walking around the shop, and people are like, And then I'm gonna walk backwards in time, and then you've got a rad counter. And I'm like, what is even happening? I don't know what's going on! Dinosaurs have lasers on their foreheads!? It

Taylor: 35:08

Welcome to the future. Y'all. This is not, uh, the future

Charla: 35:11

happening

Taylor: 35:11

thought was going to happen, but it's

Shawn: 35:13

the timeline is just unraveling. So this is like, what's

Charla: 35:16

It is! I,

Shawn: 35:18

just,

Charla: 35:20

yeah, I really appreciate that not everything has to be for me, and I think it's been cool.

Taylor: 35:24

think that's the thing that scares me about like the future of magic a little bit is as they continue to incorporate some of these, You know, universes beyond, I mean, we've got assassins creed coming up. We've got final fantasy, you know, how do they incorporate it without pushing the complexity of the game too far, because we've seen some like really push designs in the past few years. We've seen some really powerful cards and, you know, I feel like the, my, my 10 hat is, oh, this is going to ruin magic forever. And it probably won't. But it is a fear of mine because I do love this game and I do want to see you succeed. And I do want to continue to see really cool sets like Bloomberg come out, but it does scare me a little bit to see, I don't know. I'm not saying the doctor who's bad. I'm not saying that at all. I mean, one of my favorite people to play with at FNM started coming because of. The Dr. Who sets. And so it's really cool to see that happen. But I guess that's like my concern for it. I mean, as another entrenched person in the world of magic, do you have any concerns about like the direction that wizards is heading?

Charla: 36:27

I mean, yeah, I, when you asked me, you know, what, what is the thing I'm most excited with about Magic, my gut response is I wanted to be like, well, they decided to cut back on their releases, and they're only gonna do 50 percent next year. Uh, which is not true by the way, y'all. They, they're probably gonna do 50 percent more. I don't know. One of the things that concerns me about Universe Beyond is that they're going to get lazier with their writing of their own stories because they're co opting other intellectual properties. They're like, we don't need a story because Spider Man has one. And that concerns me. Because I do love the War of Magic. I like how creative it is. I like the story. I know a lot of people ignore it entirely 100%, but I really enjoy it. One of the things I do with the pre releases is we always do like trivia about lore for Magic because I think it's neat. Um, my answer to that is what they're going to do, they're just going to make new formats. Like, Modern for a long time, it's been my theory that they're creating it into Vintage and Legacy because they can't make money on Vintage and Legacy. They cannot reprint those reserved list stuff. But if they reskin it, they can. They can get the best of both worlds, right? So modern, you're now with Modern Horizons 3 especially, you're getting reprinted. All of these incredibly powerful legacy and vintage staples are getting printed into that format because they figured out how they can make money then on that. And then they created Pioneer. And Pioneer is your new modern. So I think you will continue to see that. My prediction, you can write this down folks, and then in a couple years we'll go back and find out whether I'm nuts or not is I think CEDH is going to become its own format. Um, and that's going to be where your reserved list cards find a home.

Shawn: 38:10

I hope you are correct. This may turn off some listeners. I have long wanted a separate format and band list for CDH and EDH. And I know not everyone agrees. And we are called rule zero. So why couldn't you just rule zero your own thing? Well, as we talked about before, sometimes you go to the convention and you bring Ilharg or tribal, like we talked about on a recent episode, or we're going to talk about, I can't remember what order we're doing them in. And then somebody else plays deck that is, uh, about 800 times more powerful than boar tribal Ilharg.

Charla: 38:45

Absolutely. I think it needs to be a separate format because it takes every format is taking rule zero and making that conversation happen before the game begins. And I don't think it's any problem with that. Like if you sit down to a table and you're playing pioneer, you already had the silent rule zero conversation of you won't have Fetchlands. Like, that conversation was had before you even sat down to the table. And I think those are good conversations because people will have a much better time playing Magic if you are playing the same game. And you are not playing the same game when you are playing CDH and Casual. It is not the same game.

Shawn: 39:22

Have you seen that in your events?

Charla: 39:24

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.

Shawn: 39:25

pub stomping or something happening.

Charla: 39:28

mhm. Oh, hands down. Um, I

Shawn: 39:29

in the, in the,

Charla: 39:30

Oh, I have created entire formats based around trying to avoid that. We're launching our Summer Commander League, and it is designed to try to avoid having Pub Stompers come in, with just CDH decks to destroy you. And the way I have done that is I've created, these decks that you draw at the beginning of the game, and those tell you how you get points for that game. So it changes every single time you play. And that way you can't go home and sculpt the perfect deck to be a point farmer. Be like, I'm gonna go in because Sharla's event says the person who casts the largest spell gets a point, and the person who exiles a creature gets a point, and so they'll just stuff the deck full of those things just so they can come in and pup stomp. I've had tears at my events that had that, so I was like, how do I avoid that? And I've done this for the last couple and it's worked really, really well where Some of them are, and they're all really stupid names. Like one's got like a guillotine. It's called the leaderless. So you get two points. If you decide you will never cast your commander in the game. So it's like a penalty you take on yourself. But you get two points for it. Yeah. They're silly and stupid and, you know, punny. There's like. Uh, Good Princess Bride ones. Yes! That's what I'm saying! Rewind and see that again! Yeah, there'll be stuff like Inconceivable and you get points for like killing people with their own commander. But it changes constantly and it, it kind of helps reduce that factor.

Taylor: 41:00

I think that's great. Just in terms of playing in general. I mean, something that Sean and I talk a lot about is how yeah. Difficult. It can be to keep things fresh, you know, or to make the game interesting because after having played for so long, it's really easy just to kind of go through the motions. You know, we were talking about your area deck and, and other decks like that, where it's just like, I'm going through the motions and we'll get back to me eventually. And so when you have fun, interactive things like these cards out of this deck to try and earn your points that makes it exciting because now you've got this new goal to achieve. Cause I think something that I experienced a lot as a player, as you know, somebody talking about this format is that it's really easy to sit down in a pod and the game doesn't move forward. Because people are afraid, like, Oh, if I attack this person, they're going to be mad at me and retaliate and crack back. But it's now propelling the game forward. Cause you're saying, Oh, I'm trying to achieve this, you know, you know, reward. And that's why I like the bounties so much. They printed in the outlaws of thunder junction commander decks, because it's easy to attack them and say, Oh, I'm just trying to get this bounty. Like, sorry, nothing personal. I think it helps to move the game forward. So I love anything that helps to create Some way to break that tension of the standstill that occurs sometimes in games.

Charla: 42:16

Yeah, I think Sean nailed it when he said we're all you know, we're all chasing that first high. We're all trying to get back to that like, kitchen table that experience of first sitting down and discovering magic cards, right? So I've seen you all create different formats and, you know, I've helped create some of the old ones we've done where it's like, we're going to play all gold border cards and, just meet creative ways. I do a summer camp. This is my plug for that. If you have children come do my summer camp. Um, but I always start off the summer camp telling them about how like commander was literally just a bunch of dudes. I'd love to say ladies, but a bunch of folks sitting around, um, being like, let's find a new creative way to play magic. And that's awesome and I think that my favorite part about this game is that the cards breed creativity. And I love that. You read a card and immediately your brain starts being like, How can, how can I make this work? How, how can this fit together?

Shawn: 43:09

When the light bulbs kick on in somebody's eyes, or even in my own at this old age of like when I create 47 robots with Mr. House and I realized that by copying Mr. House, I'm actually triggering more Mr. House triggers with every single dice roll and it just exponentially explodes. My brain is just that mean where like the brain is just blowing up in space and it's recreating that joy, which is, One of the things I think we wanted to start the podcast on But I had to jump in because one thing you mentioned and it's in my questions and i'm glad you mentioned it I don't mean to put you on the spot But what is it like to be a lady in commander or in magic in general has it improved over the years at all? Your shop's like super diverse and awesome and welcoming, but I know it's not like that everywhere Excellent

Charla: 44:01

It's not like I'm not like, oh, it's great to be a woman in magic and I'm incredibly respected and it's great That's not super true But it's so much better when I first went to shops. I used to have people always ask me like, oh Wow, your boyfriend lent you a deck today or oh, wow He made you made a deck for you and I would always have people like show me how to tap my lands and like very very mansplaining

Shawn: 44:26

This is all sad, sad news.

Charla: 44:28

But also as a woman shop owner, I get harassed a lot. That's not great. Um, but it can become a huge problem. So I used to take deck lists, via Facebook. And you could communicate with the shop and stuff that way. And then I just started getting a lot of dicks, and a lot of like awful harassment and stuff. So we closed that down entirely. Um, and so the only way to communicate with the shop now is via email. And that's why it's because it just was, relentless. And sometimes it'll be stuff of like, I saw you and I saw what you were wearing today, and it would be like the shirt I would be wearing. I'd be like, and we're good and we're good. Um,

Shawn: 45:05

That is So. terrifying. I like i'm just Sorry to hear that. I'm glad that it's improving It's certainly not anywhere where it needs to be Yeah, what a horrific thing to have to deal with when you're here to like make fun and light and have happy games for people To play and have children coming into the shop and it's just like oh

Charla: 45:24

Yeah.

Shawn: 45:25

there's a CD underbelly out there. You guys do a good

Charla: 45:27

Yeah.

Shawn: 45:28

keeping it at bay. I think I don't know

Charla: 45:31

Um. The number one reason I ban people is for sexual misconduct, I guess? Um, because I want to create a space that is safe, that people can come and feel very comfortable with. I want to create a place that's like safe. you don't have to worry about that. So that means that yes, behind the scenes, I have had to like, have removed those elements. Um, but it has gotten much, much better.

Taylor: 45:57

As, you know, a point of advice or a question of how to make the world a better place, if you could give a piece of advice to help make the shop more inclusive, as a patron, not just as an owner, but what could you offer as a piece of advice to the patrons that come to your store?

Charla: 46:13

Yeah, that's actually a really good question. I started an advanced magic, summer camp, and it was largely because I was like, I want to start helping guide and create magic players that we all love to be around. So there's a few things I think you can do to really make it inclusive. One is finding out people's pronouns. The moment you sit down, don't always just assume it. Just make sure you take that time and care to be like, this means a lot to this person. This is them being seen. And that's huge. Also if you see someone feeling uncomfortable, my customers, I'm so lucky are incredible. Like I have literally watched one person get like a little bit uncomfortable around someone and immediately someone comes in and is like, Hey, we have an open spot in our pod. Come on over here. so much. And they'll come talk to me. So part of what I love about Gamer's Haunt, and what I really try to do is not just like ice people out that are learning either, like learning how to interact with women or learning how to ask people's pronouns is that people, I want people to have space to grow and learn that. I don't want to immediately be like, well, you're out. I want to be like, Hey, you know, here, here at Gamer's Haunt, we want to be inclusive. We want people to feel good. We're not here for a dating app at this moment. Um, you can do that later. But I think that's important. Uh, something I did before COVID, and I probably should look at doing again, is we used to have, a women's commander night. Cause about 50 percent of my customers are women, but they don't come and play in the shop. So I'm trying, and I don't know the answer to this, so if you do, let me know. I try to make it a space then where they can come and just play. And a lot of it, I don't think is even about being hit on. I think a lot more about it is, it's a space that not as many women have been in as long. So you get very self conscious about rules. I think that is the number one reason I don't see women in my shop as much. is they feel like they don't know as much. So they feel like they don't want to be looked down on or looked at as being dumb if they don't know the answer to the most complicated game in the entire world. Um, so like for June, instead of doing like sales and stuff like that For Pride Month, we're going to be having a couple of events for that. And one of them is an after hours event, that is going to be open to women and non binary people. And it's going to be a space that is only for that, that night. It's a night we're normally closed anyway. But I want to be able to make it. So it's like, I want to give something back to that community and not just be like, buy a flag. No offense to buying a flag. You can, you can, but

Shawn: 48:56

yeah, well, like you're part of the community now and for the young people, especially in Asheville, like creating a space where they can learn if they don't know already or they can feel comfortable if they do know already. It is a large part of like giving back and mentoring and As a shop owner, I imagine you do so much of that role of kind of just mentoring and guiding people. It's much more than just buying cardboard and slinging cardboard. It's like actually seeming to help and create new players who are emotionally, you know, adept. Let's say that's

Charla: 49:31

best conversations, yeah, one of my best conversations I've ever had. And I'm not, I won't call them out by name, but it was a parent who is there a lot with their kid and stuff. And it was just like, Hey, I'm not very big in this community and my child is queer and I want to make sure that they have space and that I understand it. Cause they were like, I didn't grow up in that space. I don't understand it, but I want to make sure that they have mentors and have a place that nurture them. And I was like, Oh, that's all you can hope for, right? You don't have to understand something, but just recognizing that you need help with that is, it was just awesome.

Taylor: 50:08

to shout out your summer camp. I got to help you one summer with that and it was a lot of fun. And you know, my background was in education. I was a teacher for, for many years. I taught high school and it was great. You know, working with the younger kids was a challenge for me. But I will say you creating this space was amazing because I saw these young people having complex conversations about a very complex game and then dealing with complex emotions because, you know, we're playing commander with them or they're playing in a one V one sealed pool or whatever. And you're teaching them this game. And then it was amazing to see this, what was. Initially a sad scenario because, one player beat the other player and the player who lost was dealing with some of those complex emotions of losing. And they started to cry and to, to see this community that you fostered, then go and support that person. And all the other kids like rushed over and pat them on the back and, you know, lifted them up. And it was great to see that happen. And I don't think that that type of positive, like reinforcement occurs all the time, you know, When I was teaching is very common for more bullying to occur than any type of thing like that. And so it's so cool to see a place like gamers hunt, creating that environment where we can have complex conversations where we can have complex games and we can deal with those complex emotions and it starts at a young age. And that was so cool. So thanks for doing that for the community. I think that does a lot more than what people might realize or even think about.

Charla: 51:36

I think the coolest thing about that is they weren't like, don't cry, they were like giving him space to cry and be like, you work through that emotion, we have all been there. And I was like, man, I I, I legitimately, this is no joke, cried my first Friday Night Magic. I was like, I can't!

Shawn: 51:51

Yeah, yeah, I've been there.

Charla: 51:54

Yeah, It's

Shawn: 51:55

well, we all

Charla: 51:55

fine. We'll get through

Shawn: 51:56

It's like you wouldn't make tears if you weren't supposed to spill them out all over all your double sleeve cards correctly, double sleeved so that they're protected from salty tears.

Charla: 52:06

That's right. And you're a certified therapist, so you know. Yeah,

Shawn: 52:17

Would you be okay, Charla? I know time's running out on us a little bit. Would you be okay with a couple rapid fire kind of questions? Competitive magic, dying, coming back.

Charla: 52:26

Coming back. I do think wizards tried really hard to kill it, and I think it's still coming back. I will also very quickly address the standard question you had for me forever ago. I have clawed and bit and cried and shed blood, trying to keep standard alive at Gamers Haunt. When I first started there, we would have 40 to 50 players, and now we have about 12. And Commander is just slowly eating it away. I had no Commander on Friday nights, and I now routinely have 50 to 60 players of Commander on Friday. And the poor little Standard players are huddled in the corner crying. Um, not literally, since we were just talking about that. Not literally.

Shawn: 53:01

That's so sad for me to hear because I came up in standard and I think there's some benefits. I think we've talked a little bit in the past if you grow up, In Magic, at least, in a competitive 1v1 environment, I think you tend to learn some things about the game that you might not pick up necessarily if you start with Commander in a much more relaxed, casual atmosphere. Good or bad, I don't know, but I think it makes you

Charla: 53:26

people who start with Commander are lazy players.

Shawn: 53:28

Are they? Okay. Yeah.

Charla: 53:30

don't know the rules as well. Think they do. Hands down, when people are learning how to play Magic, I always gear them towards, we have these kitchen table decks we build. They're cheap, and you can just learn them, but if you're learning with 60 cards, you're learning only nine cards, because you have repeats. If you're learning with Commander, you're literally learning a hundred different cards.

Shawn: 53:49

Losing is less of a painful experience for a just competitive player Maybe not at first but after you've been doing it a while. I don't know like that's my theory. It could be wrong. I Love that you're smiling during now and you've definitely seen it I'm sure of like people trying to flip a table after a modern match or

Charla: 54:12

I think sometimes when you get really good at Magic, you expect to be really good at magic. And competitive professional magic players still lose more than 50 percent of the time. So I think that's important for people to remember.

Shawn: 54:27

Yeah, it's an old michael jordan quote you know If people counted all the baskets, I missed the games. I lost on the buzzer all that stuff Nobody ever talks about it. But that was the majority of it. No, not

Charla: 54:37

Yeah. Yeah. But I do, and I think what's sad about standard dying out is I, it is my favorite format. 90 percent of the time if you ask someone what their favorite set it is, it is the set that they started with. And I think that Standard really cultivates that because you really get the flavor of that set. You don't just get three cards from that set.

Shawn: 54:55

What does that say about me when I started the actual thing that was coming out was fallen empires

Charla: 55:00

Oh, I'm so sorry. That's still your favorite set isn't it? Oh, oh, good. Good, good. You're a smart man.

Shawn: 55:06

Actually, though the dark is my favorite because that was still out Everything

Charla: 55:10

Oh, see, there you go, though.

Shawn: 55:12

me smile and that's

Charla: 55:14

is amazing. The storyline.

Shawn: 55:17

yeah,

Charla: 55:18

I love it. Love the

Shawn: 55:19

yeah. People don't know enough about the story. They should look into it. There's a Mark Rosewater podcast to drive to work where he talks about the birth of the dark and the story about how it follows the ice age. And then there's all these like strange things happening post ice age. It's a really neat, background story and explains why some of the cards are the way they are.

Charla: 55:39

Is why I love War of Magic, because you understand the backdrop behind

Shawn: 55:42

yeah, we do, we do need to keep that alive when, especially when Marvel hits the stands. I am in danger of checking out. I'll buy a lot more singles.

Charla: 55:50

And I think, I think Standard is designed to be training wheels. I think it is designed to be graduated out of. I think most Standard players play about a year, and then you get a couple that play two to three years.

Shawn: 56:00

Sure, when you lose your first deck, I mean, I did. I played Valakut and then it rotated and I was like, I can't play Prime Evil Titan and Valakut the Molten Pinnacle anymore. I'm out.

Taylor: 56:09

Yeah.

Charla: 56:09

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn: 56:11

standard decks? But

Taylor: 56:20

Well energy is coming back. Don't you

Charla: 56:22

Oh, I know. I know. Don't you remind me!

Shawn: 56:25

So much energy, everywhere. So

Charla: 56:29

at lightning round. Go ahead.

Shawn: 56:31

Oh, no, you're good. I love it. Taylor, you got one that you want to kind of throw out

Taylor: 56:35

I'll steal one that I think you're going to ask Sharla flip it or rip it. I'm Is it popular at the store? Is it not? What are your thoughts on it? Should more people play flip it or rip it? Should we not? What do you think?

Charla: 56:46

It's the most amazing game in the entire world. Everybody should play it. Drink the Kool Aid.

Taylor: 56:51

So for those that don't know, you get to buy a pack at a discounted rate, but for a very, very big potential downside, what is that downside? Walk us through a game of flip it or rip it.

Charla: 57:04

Welcome to Gamer's Haunt. Why do you have so many ripped cards on your wall? Well, you could get this beautiful pack. Let me get this pack to you today for a mere price that, uh, is 20 percent off. And you're like, 20 percent off a pack? I do want that. So then, we proceed to take it, we open it, shuffle it all, face down and we agree upon a card. When it was draft packs, it was easy. It was always the rare because there was only one, but you know, that doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, follow me. You flip over the rare, that's it. You get a discounted price pack. I'm sad. You're happy. Life goes on. If you don't, I rip one in half. I set it to the side. I do not look at it until the end. And then at the end, I flip them all over and I see what beautiful bounties I have ripped in half. Um And my first one I ever did with that was Blood Moon, and at the time it was about 40, so it's still on the ceiling in my shop. But we've gotten incredible things. We have Force of Negation, we have Rin and Six, we've got swords, we have it's just

Taylor: 58:10

you walk into the shop and behind the counter or guys to the side of the cash register there, there's like this memorial of fallen ripped cards. And it's always great to see because you let people sign them sometimes or they ask to or whatever. And so it's like,

Charla: 58:24

them to. You need to know your shame.

Taylor: 58:27

Or pride. I think if I played it, I would, I would want you to rip it. That's what I've

Charla: 58:31

See, I have a lot of people that are like, I just want my name up on the wall.

Shawn: 58:35

I'm, so glad to hear that response because online it's a tough conversation for people to have apparently

Charla: 58:41

people get so upset about it. I don't really understand. I got no dog in the fight. Like, I joke around about how much I love it. I'm like, it's just a fun pastime, right? You just adding an extra

Shawn: 58:52

fed a small child And yeah, I was like you weren't gonna sell that and give that money away to a small child were you no

Charla: 59:00

That's right. You weren't,

Shawn: 59:01

it was gonna make

Charla: 59:02

you were going to put it in a binder and probably forget about it Oh, well, yeah, that is

Shawn: 59:05

deck that I definitely don't play blood moon in

Taylor: 59:15

to do it now that I'm thinking about it because I opened that like really special edition mana crypt in your shop and that would have been wicked to have put up on the wall.

Charla: 59:23

it would have been beautiful and you would have been talked about for the ages. Your legacy would have been gone. You know, just,

Taylor: 59:30

I'm gonna head over to the shop here in a little while and, uh, play a game of flip it or rip it. While I buy my limb duels, paladins and things, it's going to be great.

Charla: 59:39

It's gonna be good.

Taylor: 59:40

Another rapid fire. So, if you could play in any, you know, you mentioned like most people's favorite, game. The format to the ones that they get into or their favorite sets are the ones when they get into magic. Is there a time in magic's history where you thought to yourself, this is it, this is the pinnacle. I love this. Is there a deck that you love playing? I know you mentioned the aristocrats deck. Was that it? Or was there a time where you're like, this is peak magic. What stands out for you?

Charla: 1:00:06

Uh, the first deck that I ever did well with was the Selesnya deck. And at the time it was playing Thragtusk and Resplendent Angel and it was linking all of those. But I was poor, so I was playing Armada Word. If you don't know that card, Google it. Treat yourself. So I was playing all the budget versions of it and I loved playing that deck. Partly because, flashback to asking me how it is to be a woman in magic, people were always telling me how it was bad. And I remember this conversation, where Josh, my husband was just like, why don't you play her and then tell her if, if it's bad. So this guy's like, okay, sure, sure, sure. Cause he was just explaining to me how it was terrible. And then I just crushed him and it was beautiful. And I was like, this is the peak of my life. Uh, and it's all going to be downhill from here.

Taylor: 1:00:50

That sounds like good magic to me. I do love our motto worm.

Shawn: 1:00:52

I mean, our model worm has got a serious Freudian side to it. So I love that you,

Charla: 1:00:58

the cigar is just a cigar.

Shawn: 1:01:00

that you beat this guy down with, let's

Charla: 1:01:03

I know, right?

Shawn: 1:01:05

use your imagination. Look at the card. It's just a worm. That's fine.

Charla: 1:01:12

Yeah.

Taylor: 1:01:12

I'll never forget. When, for those that don't know Carmen complains, who works for wizards now is from the Asheville area and worked at another shop that, uh, wasn't there for a while. I just remember going to, to the shop and I was looking for the flip Avacyns because that was, in standard at the time it was the Avacyn Archangel Avacyn that would flip over to the red one and it would do damage to everyone. And everyone was out of stock of it. I was just trying to find them for my standard deck. And she recommended Sarah Angel because it was in standard still, because it was printed into the like, learn to play magic decks that they would put out

Charla: 1:01:49

yeah!

Taylor: 1:01:49

and everyone was bringing

Charla: 1:01:52

give us those. Yes.

Taylor: 1:01:55

trying to play in standard because this was back when like collective company was the deck. And I loved that deck so much. And I was trying to play that Avacyn, but I couldn't find it. And so Carmen was just like, yeah, play Sarah angel. It's a good budget alternative and we have plenty in stock and I will just never forget. Sometimes it worked. Wonderfully, because it's just a beater. I mean, it's a flyer that does damage. And other times I was destroyed and I learned like to evaluate my cards and I learned why Avacyn was better than Sarah Angel, but if only.

Charla: 1:02:28

Yeah,

Shawn: 1:02:29

mean

Taylor: 1:02:29

Bring back the

Shawn: 1:02:30

best keyword. I don't know if you can really beat that. But I'll trust your experience in that

Charla: 1:02:36

I think Platinum Angel. I mean, it says that I can't lose. I cannot lose.

Shawn: 1:02:40

nothing they can do

Taylor: 1:02:41

talk about like first sets. I opened in my first ever pack of magic, it was the, the Mirrodin block. And I opened, a platinum angel as my first ever, like it was mythic or rare. I think it was a rare then they didn't have mythics at that point. And I opened a platinum angel and I thought to myself. I'm a god. I am never losing this game.

Charla: 1:03:00

exactly. How could they stop me? They can't stop me.

Shawn: 1:03:04

They have no artifact removal whatsoever in any of those blocks

Taylor: 1:03:09

No. Artifact or creature removal.

Shawn: 1:03:11

None.

Charla: 1:03:12

No.

Shawn: 1:03:15

Well, awesome. I actually don't think I have any more lightning rounds necessarily. What about you? You got any last minute things that you wanted to share, Sharla or Taylor?

Charla: 1:03:25

do. I have a question.

Taylor: 1:03:27

yeah.

Charla: 1:03:27

Okay, so my favorite thing about Magic is when you take a card and you play it kind of in the way that it wasn't quote unquote intended to be, right? So some of the favorite ways I've ever killed my opponents are things like Sign and Blood, where you're like, they'll be at one life, and I'm like, what if you draw a card and then lose two life? What are some of your favorite ways of playing cards that are a little bit weird, you don't think that's exactly the way typically it's used, that you really enjoy?

Taylor: 1:03:55

It's funny you mentioned that because, in the discord chat, I mentioned playing my Jadar deck against Joda on Brawl and Joda just spits out everything. And, I was playing Jadar and I got them down to two because it's like an aristocrats style deck. And I actually killed them with a sign in blood, like this morning. It was awesome.

Charla: 1:04:13

Oh, oh, my timing was perfect with that. Beautiful.

Taylor: 1:04:18

It'll be in the next episode, but we recorded, and so I'll save a little fun play pattern that I've discovered recently in my new peripherals deck. But something that, Mike Green has taught me is ghost quartering my own lands to fix my mana base. And so I do that often where I am happy to destroy one of my own lands in exchange for getting the right color pip that I need, or I try to incorporate some of the indestructible lands. And so I can turn the ghost quarter into, You know, whatever color fixing I need. So if I target my indestructible

Charla: 1:04:48

play.

Taylor: 1:04:48

yeah. And, and that's, that's not me. That was Mike who taught me how to do that, but. I try to look for those corner cases because more often than not, I don't need more mana. I need more pips. And so I'm happy to like sacrifice land. And again, I can target a tap lands too. So a ghost quarter and it's great.

Charla: 1:05:05

Mike taught me that Temple of the False God is bad. He's right.

Taylor: 1:05:09

It's good in green decks, but that's it.

Charla: 1:05:10

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these are like, you know, discovering penicillin, where you're just like, I accidentally got this deck all moldy and it worked great.

Shawn: 1:05:19

Oh, I wish I had some good answers for you cause I know over the history there been some.

Taylor: 1:05:23

I've got one for you, Sean. And I don't know if you have it or not. I don't know if you still have your name, but call deck together. Do you still have that

Shawn: 1:05:29

Oh, absolutely.

Taylor: 1:05:30

So one of my favorite. Two, two lands. I love lands. It's just one of my favorite ways. I, I used to play a lot of landfall decks and it's great. Um, but if you're not playing castle in breath, you have to, because it pumps all those tokens and people always forget that your lands can do cool things like that. And then the second one is restless ridgeline. That's the red white one. But it puts counters on things. And so you can put counters on an input call to help like Bolster her stats and get more gnomes. But it also can attack and I just think more people should play creature lands. I think those are two lands that could slot into that deck that are just fun because you could, if you have enough manna, you could, you could. Pump up the restless ridgeline as well. I've killed people in brawl with that as well. And that's always fun. Cause they're like, Oh, a board wipe. I'm going to kill your 1 million gnomes. And I go, you thought,

Shawn: 1:06:19

I will say like maybe the most, I love, I love the creature land idea and I, I love a name to call because it's like reverse aristocrats for me. Whereas aristocrats, You think of a deck that like the other the person playing it needs to just do a lot of math like i'm doing it but not draining people I'm doing it with kathar crusade counters that are all like at different levels of kathar crusade So i'm like well, i've got one token with 18 plus one plus one counters and then the next 12 tokens have 19 plus one plus one counters and it just Oh, it just fills me with glee Big brain. I don't know if it's big brain so much as lucky brain, but one of my favorite things I've ever done in magic was in modern and it was in getting into day two in the Grand Prix and it was the final game and I was drawing off the top of my deck. My opponent was playing some kind of splinter twin S deck and I was playing Eldrazi and taxes. So I had aether vials and I was thinking to myself, the only way I can win this game is by casting a reality smasher off the top. But I don't have the mana to do that, so I'm going to tick my Aether Vial up to 5, which is an amount of mana on an Aether Vial that doesn't make any sense to most people who have ever played Aether Vial. Lo and behold, the game went to turns, partially because I was new to modern and I was trying to play in a tournament, so my own fault. Final turn, Reality Smasher off the top, Aether Vial it in, smash, you're dead. Game's over. The guy was, rightfully a little salty, I think. He said something like, you should learn how to play your cards. And I'm like, enjoy the bus ride home.

Charla: 1:07:54

That's beautiful.

Shawn: 1:07:56

Charlotte, I think from both of us, thank you so much for doing this.

Charla: 1:08:01

Thank you all, this was so much fun.

Taylor: 1:08:02

Thanks for being here. It's a pleasure, especially for you to be our first guest. I've really enjoyed it and we hope to have you back sometime. Maybe we can jam some games. I feel like I've not gotten to play a game with you in a very long time. It's probably the last chaos draft. Maybe that was. A long time ago, but, uh, yeah, we'll have to, we'll have to get something like rule zero live. Oh, see, we keep our, we keep our trophies in easy reach always.

Charla: 1:08:29

my gosh. Dang it, I need a

Shawn: 1:08:32

Constantly taunting one another look at my trophy actually Taylor's got so much more love than mine Which hurt um a little oh, I love that one. Is that a mirror?

Taylor: 1:08:43

Every round.

Charla: 1:08:47

You sure did. You sure did. But I've never been so sad to have won any games. I was like, if only I'd lost everything.

Taylor: 1:08:57

Yeah, I think I got like a pity prize out of the prize pack. I got the trophy and then I got a pity movie. It was a movie called deadheading and I was going on a flight and I'm terrified of flying and this is all about like murder and crashing planes. And I was like, Oh, this is really great. Thanks Carl.

Charla: 1:09:14

We're here for a supportive community.

Taylor: 1:09:16

Always. But seriously though, thank you for creating a space that we love. One of the favorite things that I love about my apartment is I can see your game shop for my kitchen window. And so I am there more often than maybe I should be. I don't know. Kick me out sometime. Feel free to do so, but I love the space you've made. Oh, thank you. I love the space you've made and how much it helps our community. For both Sean and myself, this, this nerd hobby that we love and how wonderfully you fostered this community that we are a part of. So thank you.

Charla: 1:09:45

Yeah, and I just want to say, like, legitimately, my customers are what make it. So thank you all so much for helping me make it. Like, I can't be a one person show. That doesn't matter. It's, uh, because we have an incredible community that helps foster that and bring that in. And you all have been there basically since the beginning.

Shawn: 1:09:59

Next week we're talking about a situation that players often come up against if they played EDH or casual magic for any amount of time. A deck that your play group feels is a little oppressive. It's hard to hear that our babies are actually terrifying monsters with three rows of teeth, orange fur, and somehow become the whole point of a set that was supposed to be celebrating the flavor of the Southwest and cowboys. Well, uh, anyways, in other words, a baby or a deck, whatever you want to use. for metaphor needs to be retrained, constrained, put back in its loot crate. So we're going to teach you how to do that. Perhaps how Taylor did that with his own to ready deck that got a little out of hand and how it now feels like a much more happy go lucky perforos forge blooded or something like that. The one that flashes creatures in, it's a pretty cool deck.

Taylor: 1:10:48

If y'all enjoyed this conversation and discussion that we had with Sharla, the owner of our local game shop, be sure to follow us on Twitter or X, where we have more conversations like this one at rule zero podcast, or you can email us at rule zero podcast at gmail. com. That's rule the number zero podcast at gmail. com. If you'd like for us to highlight one of your decks in the future, feel free to reach out to us. We love talking about decks and especially from our listeners, just reach out to us, we'd love Love to feature it and don't forget.

Shawn: 1:11:17

In magic, there's no problem that a rule zero conversation cannot solve.